SearcharxivSearch

arXiv · 2509.25149

Pretraining Large Language Models with NVFP4

Abstract

Large Language Models (LLMs) today are powerful problem solvers across many domains, and they continue to get stronger as they scale in model size, training set size, and training set quality, as shown by extensive research and experimentation across the industry. Training a frontier model today requires on the order of tens to hundreds of yottaflops, which is a massive investment of time, compute, and energy. Improving pretraining efficiency is therefore essential to enable the next generation of even more capable LLMs. While 8-bit floating point (FP8) training is now widely adopted, transitioning to even narrower precision, such as 4-bit floating point (FP4), could unlock additional improvements in computational speed and resource utilization. However, quantization at this level poses challenges to training stability, convergence, and implementation, notably for large-scale models trained on long token horizons. In this study, we introduce a novel approach for stable and accurate training of large language models (LLMs) using the NVFP4 format. Our method integrates Random Hadamard transforms (RHT) to bound block-level outliers, employs a two-dimensional quantization scheme for consistent representations across both the forward and backward passes, utilizes stochastic rounding for unbiased gradient estimation, and incorporates selective high-precision layers. We validate our approach by training a 12-billion-parameter model on 10 trillion tokens -- the longest publicly documented training run in 4-bit precision to date. Our results show that the model trained with our NVFP4-based pretraining technique achieves training loss and downstream task accuracies comparable to an FP8 baseline. These findings highlight that NVFP4, when combined with our training approach, represents a major step forward in narrow-precision LLM training algorithms.

Explore related subjects

Keep this discovery

BibTeXRIS

NVIDIA, Felix Abecassis, Anjulie Agrusa, Dong Ahn, Jonah Alben, Stefania Alborghetti, Michael Andersch, Sivakumar Arayandi, Alexis Bjorlin, Aaron Blakeman, Evan Briones, Ian Buck, Bryan Catanzaro, Muya Chang, Jinhang Choi, Mike Chrzanowski, Eric Chung, Victor Cui, Steve Dai, Bita Darvish Rouhani, Carlo del Mundo, Deena Donia, Burc Eryilmaz, Henry Estela, Abhinav Goel, Oleg Goncharov, Yugi Guvvala, Robert Hesse, Russell Hewett, Herbert Hum, Ujval Kapasi, Brucek Khailany, Mikail Khona, Nick Knight, Alex Kondratenko, Ronny Krashinsky, Ben Lanir, Simon Layton, Michael Lightstone, Daniel Lo, Paulius Micikevicius, Asit Mishra, Tim Moon, Deepak Narayanan, Chao Ni, Abhijit Paithankar, Satish Pasumarthi, Ankit Patel, Mostofa Patwary, Ashwin Poojary, Gargi Prasad, Sweta Priyadarshi, Yigong Qin, Xiaowei Ren, Oleg Rybakov, Charbel Sakr, Sanjeev Satheesh, Stas Sergienko, Pasha Shamis, Kirthi Shankar, Nishant Sharma, Mohammad Shoeybi, Michael Siu, Misha Smelyanskiy, Darko Stosic, Dusan Stosic, Bor-Yiing Su, Frank Sun, Nima Tajbakhsh, Shelby Thomas, Przemek Tredak, Evgeny Tsykunov, Gandhi Vaithilingam, Aditya Vavre, Rangharajan Venkatesan, Roger Waleffe, Qiyu Wan, Hexin Wang, Mengdi Wang, Lizzie Wei, Hao Wu, Evan Wu, Keith Wyss, Ning Xu, Jinze Xue, Charlene Yang, Yujia Zhai, Ruoxi Zhang, Jingyang Zhu, Zhongbo Zhu. 2025-09-29. Pretraining Large Language Models with NVFP4. https://arxiv.org/abs/2509.25149

Cite the original work for its findings. Save a collection to share your selection of sources.

KEEP EXPLORING

Related papers

Auto-RecSys: Harnessing Autonomous Research Agents for Industry-Scale Recommender System

Auto-research agents have shown the potential to automate hypothesis generation, experiment execution, and iterative refinement. However, scaling this paradigm to industry-scale recommendation models introduces two challenges: (1) long feedback loops, where model training can take days, making serial iteration prohibitively slow and requiring parallel exploration across multiple research directions; and (2) system complexity, where large configurations, fragile infrastructure dependencies, and multi-day GPU jobs require robust and recoverable execution. We present Auto-RecSys, an autonomous research system for long-horizon experimentation on industry-scale recommendation models. Auto-RecSys addresses these challenges through three harness designs: (1) distributed asynchronous execution for running multiple experiments in parallel across servers, (2) centralized cross-server memory for persistent and recoverable execution across sessions and failures, and (3) cognitive-procedural separation, where natural-language skill files guide LLM reasoning while deterministic scripts enforce operational correctness. Auto-RecSys further employs a dual-loop self-evolving architecture: an Execution Evolution Loop in which model-specific playbooks accumulate operational knowledge by recording failed attempts and crystallizing successful pipelines, and an Idea Evolution Loop in which experimental outcomes inform subsequent ideation. Evaluated on recommendation models, Auto-RecSys significantly reduces the human time required per experiment cycle and improves execution reliability as its playbooks mature.

cs.CL

Structurally Speaking: Motif-Oriented Graph Captioning through Bidirectional Graph-Text Translation

Graph captions should help readers understand graph structure, rather than simply translate adjacency matrices into long textual edge lists. A useful graph caption abstracts connectivity into recognizable motifs, such as hubs, paths, cycles, cliques, and bridges, because these motifs provide compact structural units that are easier to read, compare, and recover. In this paper, we study motif-oriented graph captioning as a bidirectional graph-text translation task, where captions must both preserve enough topology for graph recovery and express the graph through concise motif-level descriptions. We show that direct prompting of GPT-5.1 often produces graph-recoverable captions by enumerating node-to-node connections, but these captions are verbose and can contain inconsistent motif interpretations. To address this gap, we introduce Structurally Speaking, a lightweight structured prompting protocol that guides translation between explicit connectivity and motif-level abstraction. Experiments on a synthetic motif-based dataset show that structured prompting produces shorter and more motif-consistent captions while maintaining comparable graph recovery. These results suggest that explicit topology-to-motif reasoning guidance can make LLM-generated graph captions more interpretable without model fine-tuning.

cs.CL

Using Semantic Uncertainty to Estimate Transition Relevance in Turn-taking

Turn-taking is a fundamental mechanism that governs when interlocutors speak and listen. Although Spoken Dialogue Systems (SDS) exploit a range of linguistic, acoustic, and non-verbal cues, they produce ill-timed responses in unscripted interaction. A central challenge is anticipating Transition Relevance Places (TRPs), or opportunities, not obligations, for a listener to take the floor. Human listeners do not wait for turn endings; as an utterance unfolds, they use expectations about its developing meaning to anticipate TRPs and decide whether to take the floor. We examine whether these evolving expectations can be modeled through semantic uncertainty -- an LLM-derived measure of how strongly a turn so far constrains what may plausibly come next. To do so, we sample possible continuations of an ongoing turn and use changes in semantic dispersion to identify TRPs within turns. We evaluate this account on a dataset with TRP labels derived from real-time listener responses, rather than retrospective annotation. Our approach substantially outperforms prompt-based and fine-tuned text-only baselines, providing empirical support for the view that evolving semantic constraints inform perceived turn-taking opportunities in unscripted interaction.

cs.CL